Bird photographed at a beach near Sharm el Sheikh, with opinions from Eurobirdnet readers below

Detlef Gruber: Why is this a strange gull? This is a very typical Heuglin’s Gull. Take a close look at P10. The gull is actively moulting this. You can see the oval mirror which is quite distant from the tip (your photo no. 2). And all the other characters are also very fine for heuglini. For sure this is NOT a graellsii, fuscus, barabensis or armenicus (= all the other taxa which could be in the Sinai area). You can count this in contrast to the Sand Plover. Although I am not an expert in Sand Plover ID, but it looks like a Greater Sand Plover to me. I believe the jizz and proportions, mainly the bill shape, do not fit to a Lesser Sand Plover. Best regards Detlef Gruber ========================================= Killian Mullarney: Are you so sure, Detlef? I would not have expressed a view on this bird - which to me looks like a (sub-?)adult fuscus - if you had not expressed such a categoric view that the bird is a typical Heuglin's Gull! Surely the still-growing p10 does not necessarily point ot this being heuglini? Is not fuscus just as likely to be completing its primary moult in Feb/early March? [I cannot see any indication of a precise date on which the photos were taken, but I assume it was in the past 2/3 weeks?) The apparent blackness of the upperparts and the remarkably attenuated shape (though it looks like the bird is facing into a stiff wind, so shape may not be so reliable) remind me much more of fuscus than typical heuglini. Killian Mullarney ====================================== Detlef Gruber: Killian, you are much more experienced in birding the Red Sea area. What is about the darkness of the White-eyed Gull we can take for comparison? I would judge that the mystery gull and the White-eyed Gull are about the same. What is your experience comparing the White-eyed Gulls to fuscus and heuglini? Based on the photos I see clearly a difference between the black primaries to the gray upperparts. If I would see that contrast in a Lesser Blackback (lets say in Germany), I would call it an intermedius but not a fuscus. To my experience at different locations around the Baltic Sea, the darkness of the primaries and upperparts is about the same in fuscus. Some fuscus can show slightly paler upperparts, but not as pale as I would judge based on that photos. Furthermore, the bill shape (quite long and strong) and the long greenish-yellow legs are also more in line with heuglini. Finally it is always difficult to make a gull ID based on photos alone. Best regards Detlef Gruber =================================== Dick Newell: I hope you are right Killian, as I labeled a rather similar bird in Oman as fuscus, see here: http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=618 For another example of a fuscus showing a distinct contrast between the primaries and greyer coverts/scapulars see this Finnish fuscus: http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=783 On the other hand, a bird that I have labeled heuglini (and I may be wrong), which is also somewhat similar is P01251 here: http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=639 This reminds me of a ringed subadult gull seen by Richard Porter in Yemen, which he at first thought might be heuglini, but it had been ringed in Finland - there is of course more than one interpretation that could be made of this. If the Sinai gull is fuscus, are not the apical tips rather large and conspicuous and may there be too much head-=treaking and are the legs a bit long? - but it has extraordinarily long wings for heuglini and it is the wrong shade of grey. It is well recognised that separating 1st year fuscus and heuglini is tricky, it seems also that some older birds are just as tricky. Dick Newell Cambridge, UK =========================================== Visa Rauste: Dear EBN, this gull picture http://www.avestom.republika.pl/podroze/2005egipt/trip_eg2005.htm is an unusally good demonstration of one problem essentially connected with all web images: even if the file is the same, everybody sees a slightly different image depending on the quality and adjustment of one's computer screen. I have three screens in my office. When I looked at these pictures with the screen I usually use in web browsing, I completely agreed with Detlef's id ("typical heuglini"). I was very surprised to read Killian's comment ("looks like a fuscus"). Then I took the picture to another screen, and still saw a heuglini-like bird. But my third screen showed a surprisingly different image: if I had seen only it, I would have agreed with Killian and have big problems to understand Detlef's view... After careful comparison with other images and calibrating my screens I came to the conclusion that the tone of the upperparts must be noticeably paler than in fuscus. However, it is perhaps sligthly darker than in typical heuglini. We see both fuscus and heuglini regularly in Finland, and typical birds can easily been separated in all normal field conditions. But we also see regularly birds with intermediate upperpart tone. It is unknown which proportion of these are of western (i.e. intermedius) or eastern origin (hybrids fuscus x heuglini), but some of these "intermediate" birds have been ringed as chicks in Finnish fuscus colonies... with best regards -- Visa Rauste, Helsinki, Finland ============================================ Killian Mullarney: Dear Detlef, Dick, Visa et al, I should, perhaps, have considered this question a little longer before firing off an email. I am sure Visa's suggestion that the impression of this bird will depend greatly on the calibration of one's monitor is correct, and now that I think of it, my monitor probably is a little on the dark side. My impression of the bird looking more like fuscus was as much based on the extraordinarily attenuated 'look' as the blackness (on my monitor!) of the upperparts. Detlef is quite right in pointing out the similarity of the White-eyed Gull's upperparts shade, though the different angles of the two birds to the camera makes a direct comparison difficult. In good light, especially when there is some sunshine, I think there is often some difference in the quality of the blacks in fuscus, with the matt, dense black of the primaries often looking a fraction 'blacker' than the slightly brown-tinge, or sheen, on the upperparts. It is kind of Visa to give a little room to the possibility of this bird being an intermediate fuscus/heuglini, but if a typical heuglini can have such an attenuated shape as this then I would have to concede that Detlef's identification (as Heuglin's Gull) is probably quite correct? I would hate to have to rely on such subjective characters as leg-length, or bill-size in a situation like this but especially if the bird is a sub-adult (as indicated by the extent of dark on the bill?) the size of the white apical tips would, as Dick pointed out, probably be too large for a typical fuscus? Thank you Visa for your insight - now, how do I calibrate my monitor?! Best regards, Killian PS: I have just seen Tomasz's latest mail, confirming that the upperparts shade was similar to White-eyed Gull. My apologies for questioning your confident identification Detelef! ===================================================== Dirk Raes: Dear birders, Definitely a lot of gull know-how. Just a short mail to attract your attention to the fact that after the First European colour-ring Meeting on 2-3-4 September in Belgium, the 9th. International Gull Meeting will take place at the same location. On Monday 05 the talks, on Tuesday 06 the field-excursion on land and sea, probably with the "Zeeleeuw" (Sealion), the boat of the Flanders Marine Institute. "Gullers" interested in giving a presentation can contact Risto and/or Peter, mailing me as cc. Details on the IGM soon availbale on the cr-pages. best greetings, Dirk. =========================================== Dick Newell: The shape of this bird looks most unlike the other candidate, which must be graellsii, and it looks spot on for a big male heuglini (apart from which it is still growing its primaries in January). It is totally at odds with the shape of the Sinai gull. I like Visa's suggestion that the Sinai gull could be a hybrid/intergrade between fuscus and heuglini. Dick Newell Cambridge, UK --------------------------------------------------------------